Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?

Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?

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Topic Options Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?

#2014049

05:37 PM

Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?

mormandy3
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Stranger

Registered : 03/23/10
Posts : 3
Loc : phoenix
After I let the concluding brake patronize guys do my brakes the pedal was constantly spongy. Another shop said the master cylinder was regretful after 60,000 miles. just to be safe I replaced it, and all the calipers with new parts and bled the system, only to get a spongy pedal still. Took it to a shop nearby that has always been reasonably commodity with me, and they said they could n’t get a firm pedal either no matter what they did. They were stumped and gave up.

After some research here I see bleeding the brakes appears to be impossible for anyone but a franchise or person with the expensive calculator. I brought this up to the most late denounce and they said they have never heard of such a problem and do all sorts of ford brakes every day and have never seen the issue.

Am I stuck taking this to a franchise or is there any other way ? I ‘m besides amazed that this shop class ( that does to TONS of cars per day ) has never heard of such a thing. Is this just a Crown Vic issue or should it affect all newer Fords ? If I could I would take all the ABS JUNK off this car and toss it in a trash can, since I am one of those wyrd people who actually know how to use brakes and do n’t need idiot devices .

Edited by mormandy3 (

05:40 PM

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#2014058

05:43 PM

Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: mormandy3]

BlueFusion
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Over the Hill

Registered : 05/24/09
Posts : 2819
Loc : /root
only bleeding the ABS system needs the special calculator. If you do n’t get atmosphere in your ABS pump, bleeding the system should be straight fore like any other car .

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#2014065

05:51 PM

Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: BlueFusion]

CNGInterceptor
Offline

Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?

4V Fairmont
Grand Poobah

Registered : 03/18/07
Posts : 12307
Loc : Rhode Island
primitively Posted By : BlueFusion lone bleeding the ABS system needs the particular computer. If you do n’t get air in your ABS pump, bleeding the system should be straight ahead like any other car .

x2 x2
_________________________
1972 Ford Galaxie 500 |

soon to be

7.0L ( Thunderjet )
1978 Ford Fairmont | Supercharged 5.0L ( Coyote )
1996 Ford F150 XLT Supercab | 5.8L
2008 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor | 4.6L

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#2014328

10:47 PM

Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: CNGInterceptor]

mormandy3
Offline

Stranger

Registered : 03/23/10
Posts : 3
Loc : phoenix
very well … .well thanks … .I guess the mystery continues ….

To the franchise Friday it goes. I ‘ve been doing brakes and everything else to cars for about 25 years by the means and happen to do mechanical engineer for a living, so this actually gets under my hide. If you have fresh calipers & victor cylinder, and the air is all removed from the system, how can the pedal point steadily go to the floor ? Where is the coerce going when there is no escape ? I asked the mechanics that and got a lacuna gaze.

Anyway, this is a great car and worth the attempt. other than the clock chain tensioner weakness and a few suspension weaknesses, it ‘s a reasonably bulletproof car, and I did the research on that before buying it. Anything that can survive so many years as an Arizona Highway Patrol vehicle has to be pretty firm after all .

_________________________
2003 LX 72K … .Last one was a 99 LX that the ex-wife totaled … credibly saved an intake multiply repair anyhow

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#2014537

08:21 AM

Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: mormandy3]

ijmort
Offline


Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?

Registered: 03/10/10

Posts: 44

Loc: Greenville, SC, USA

n00bRegistered : 03/10/10Posts : 44Loc : Greenville, SC, USA
Another Mechanical Engineer here, so I might be way off base … but could it be a waterproofing issue at the brake fluid resevoir ? If there is no air in the lines, possibly the press builds in the brake lines, then plainly pushes the vent out of the resevoir in the engine compartment causing the pedal point to drop to the floor, but not impacting any of the brake hardware/fluid. Could get person to push the brake and have person listen/feel around the resevoir .

_________________________
2003 CVPI

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#2014540

08:25 AM

Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: ijmort]

98VicP71
Offline

[email protected]

Grand Poobah

Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?

Registered: 03/28/06

Posts: 12731

Loc: ATL

Grand PoobahRegistered : 03/28/06Posts : 12731Loc : ATL
Did you repalce the fuild or are you still using what is in there and equitable “ topping ” off the resivour ?

If therefore then you probobably need to actually flush the entire system with all modern fluid. That is what I plan on doing the weekend after east wind.

There could be moisture build up ( brake fluent will absorb water which turns it black ) and thus cause a spongy pedal point as when the brake fluid heats up the water turns to steam and gives you a spongy pedal .

1993 Lincoln Town Car 150k+ – RIP 5/10/2011
1998 Ford Crown Victoria P71 – RIP 12/25/2006
2001 Ford Crown Victoria P71(Count blackula) 297k+ – Ummmmmm evil
_________________________1993 Lincoln Town Car 150k+ – RIP 5/10/20111998 Ford Crown Victoria P71 – RIP 12/25/20062001 Ford Crown Victoria P71 ( Count blackula ) 297k+ – Ummmmmm
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#2014549

09:00 AM

Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: 98VicP71]

Blue95
Offline


Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?

Registered: 03/03/06

Posts: 2392

Loc: Past the Horizon

Over the HillRegistered : 03/03/06Posts : 2392Loc : Past the Horizon
You can besides merely graveness bleed the brakes, it will of course aim longer but works fine.

Agree with above to flush out once in a while. Dot 3 fluid will absorb moisture over clock, but can besides get lento contaminated from the steel lines and besides from debris from seals or crud that finally gets past the seals. That ‘s how it gets dark, specially within the calipers and that ‘s besides why if you are doing launching pad surrogate it ‘s a dear idea to open the bleed screw when compressing the piston to prevent contaminated fluid from being pushed rear into the ABS module.

Nothing particular about the curriculum vitae system vs other cars and no, the pedal exit is not that common. hard to believe that a competent shop can not figure this out.

I wonder if they pre-bled the new overlord cylinder before facility – that can normally cause a spongy pedal point, but not one sowly going to the floor – that is imperativeness loss in the organization. For the post above about air leaking out of the MC reservoir, that would only happen with a defective MC, as the merely direction for pressure to be lost is from a bad o-ring seal at the MC piston. You would see/hear air bubbles coming up. I take it there is no fluent leak anywhere .

Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?

1995 P71-SOLD

2002 HPP-SOLD

badgeless grille-tinted tails-Hrbacek whiteface gauges-Pioneer spkrs-12 ” sub-reworked tranny internals-Sonnax/jmod upgrades-ceramic pads-urethane swaybar bushings-new timing chains/guides/tensioners-Granatelli plenum-75mmTB-MZT-NGKTR6 plugs-180d thermo-Steeda UD’s-BOC 93tune-Thrush mufflers-LED interior/door puddle lights-Projector HID retrofit-MM corners-LED signal mirrors-17×8 TorqThrust wheels-235/55/17 Contental ExtremeContact DWS tires

2003 LX Sport-SOLD

Hrbacek hereford gauges-Pioneer spkrs-12 ” sub-reworked tranny internals-Sonnax/jmod upgrades-urethane swaybar bushings-Thrush mufflers-ceramic pads-Steeda UDs-LED interior/trunk/door lights-rebuilt 3.27 axle

Current = 2011 Silverado, time for a change

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#2014596

10:23 AM

Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: Blue95]

stalag
Offline


Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?

Registered: 03/29/09

Posts: 4004

Loc: Columbus, OH

Over the HillRegistered : 03/29/09Posts : 4004Loc : columbus, OH


The brakes in the Panther platform vehicles are ill-famed for boiling brake fluent in the system. This will decidedly make the brake system spongy. only a full flush of the organization will be good enough to fix this issue. Most shops will only bleed the system and not flush the arrangement. You will need to use respective quarts of fluid to amply clean/flush the system. After years of benign neglect a fortune of filth builds up in the system and should be flushed. It will take several flushes over a period of weeks ( with propulsion of ABS organization between flushes ) or flushing with an ABS scan cock that will actuate the ABS system. The reason for this is that the ABS arrangement besides has a resevoir. It sounds as if when you had the maestro cylinder replaced the denounce got air into the ABS resevoir. If they do not have the scantool go to a shop class that does.

Stalag

Stalag;___________Just for Rizzo I am posting this in my sig.
2001 Lincoln Town Car Cartier L, 1997 Mercury Grand Marquis (extinct)
On my LTC the following mods/upgrades were added. Heinous motorsport control arms, Command Automotive SD-1 rotors (these rotors can no longer be obtained), Calipers by Goldlinebrakes.com in silver with Hawk HPS pads (now running Ford OEM), MSD COP’s. MZT is also applied with programming from BOC. j-mod is now done. Final rebuild of transmission done by Gearstar.
_________________________Stalag ; ___________Just for Rizzo I am posting this in my sig. Coolants 2001 Lincoln Town Car Cartier L, 1997 Mercury Grand Marquis ( extinct ) On my LTC the adopt mods/upgrades were added. flagitious motorsport master arms, Command Automotive SD-1 rotors ( these rotors can no farseeing be obtained ), Calipers by Goldlinebrakes.com in silver medal with Hawk HPS pads ( now running Ford OEM ), MSD COP ‘s. MZT is besides applied with programming from BOC. j-mod is now done. Final rebuild of transmission done by Gearstar .
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#2014628

10:55 AM

Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: stalag]

SgtTaz
Offline


Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?

Registered: 01/24/08

Posts: 3131

Loc: Chicago, IL

Over the HillRegistered : 01/24/08Posts : 3131Loc : Chicago, IL
I ‘m wondering if you have a bad booster. That could be the causal agent of all this mystery and give you that boggy pedal.I had one belong bad on my 00 a few years back and ran though all the cheaper parts before figuring it to be the supporter. once replaced it was spinal column w/o problems .

Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
2006 CVPI Smokestone Metallic/ 2005 CVPI D.O.A (6/04/10)/ 2000 CVPI Blown engine (R.I.P)(SOLD)
_________________________2006 CVPI Smokestone Metallic/ 2005 CVPI D.O.A ( 6/04/10 ) / 2000 CVPI Blown locomotive ( R.I.P ) ( SOLD )
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#2015013

08:47 PM

Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: SgtTaz]

mormandy3
Offline

Stranger

Registered : 03/23/10
Posts : 3
Loc : phoenix
Thanks to all for the suggestions. Great bunch together here …

If the headmaster cylinder was not bled by rights to begin with, would it always trap air even if the brake organization as a whole was bled from each wheel ?

nowadays I am wondering about the promoter. Is there a dim-witted screen to confirm that it is working correctly ?

Yeah, I besides am amazed that a shop that I know does LOTS of brakes could n’t figure it out. But then again, I was truly PO ‘d concluding night to discover a new petroleum change poser they put in the window when it was in. I did NOT ask them to change the anoint, and they apparently dumped a week old locomotive wide of Mobil 1 and a K & N trickle ( $ 35 & $ 15 bucks ), and put in the cheap crud and a fram filter. I called them and they said they had no record of this. so now I am thinking the current employees may not be desirable of working on my giant …. If I ca n’t think of something it may go the principal Friday ( $ $ $ ! ). Ugggh …

_________________________
2003 LX 72K … .Last one was a 99 LX that the ex-wife totaled … probably saved an intake manifold repair anyhow

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#2015152

11:56 PM

Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: mormandy3]

SgtTaz
Offline

Registered: 01/24/08

Posts: 3131

Loc: Chicago, IL

Over the HillRegistered : 01/24/08Posts : 3131Loc : Chicago, IL
I ca n’t recall how the supporter was tested. ( machinist supporter did it for me )

If the overlord was not bled by rights flush bleeding your brakes would not fix the issue. Air would calm be trapped in the cylinder. It ‘s not that hard to redo yourself if you have the shed blood hoses. ( If they screwed this up I ‘d never deal with them again ) It ‘s a reasonably bare march of pushing the diver until you do n’t get any air bubbles when you push it. If they just threw it on filled it up with fluid and bled the brakes your pedal would hush be mushy .

2006 CVPI Smokestone Metallic/ 2005 CVPI D.O.A (6/04/10)/ 2000 CVPI Blown engine (R.I.P)(SOLD)
_________________________2006 CVPI Smokestone Metallic/ 2005 CVPI D.O.A ( 6/04/10 ) / 2000 CVPI Blown engine ( R.I.P ) ( SOLD )
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#2015161

12:01 AM

Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: 98VicP71]

PuppetMaster
Offline

Rookie

Registered : 06/28/09
Posts : 86
Loc : north dakota
in the first place Posted By : 98VicP71
There could be moisture build up ( brake fluid will absorb urine which turns it black ) and therefore cause a spongy pedal point as when the bracken fluid heats up the water turns to steam and gives you a spongy pedal .

Hygroscopic. That is what a brake fluid is….Hygroscopic.

/science lesson Hygroscopic. That is what a brake fluid is … .Hygroscopic./science lesson

Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
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#2015303

08:21 AM

Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: PuppetMaster]

Blue95
Offline

Registered: 03/03/06

Posts: 2392

Loc: Past the Horizon

Over the HillRegistered : 03/03/06Posts : 2392Loc : Past the Horizon
^^^ and by the way, did you ever fix your electric issue since I never heard back ?

1995 P71-SOLD

2002 HPP-SOLD

badgeless grille-tinted tails-Hrbacek hereford gauges-Pioneer spkrs-12 ” sub-reworked tranny internals-Sonnax/jmod upgrades-ceramic pads-urethane swaybar bushings-new timing chains/guides/tensioners-Granatelli plenum-75mmTB-MZT-NGKTR6 plugs-180d thermo-Steeda UD’s-BOC 93tune-Thrush mufflers-LED interior/door muddle lights-Projector HID retrofit-MM corners-LED signal mirrors-17×8 TorqThrust wheels-235/55/17 Contental ExtremeContact DWS tires

2003 LX Sport-SOLD

Hrbacek whiteface gauges-Pioneer spkrs-12 ” sub-reworked tranny internals-Sonnax/jmod upgrades-urethane swaybar bushings-Thrush mufflers-ceramic pads-Steeda UDs-LED interior/trunk/door lights-rebuilt 3.27 axle

Current = 2011 Silverado, time for a change

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#2024039

12:52 AM

Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: Blue95]

BlaineB
Offline

Over the Hill

Registered : 09/21/06
Posts : 4379
Loc : indiana
A bad booster would not give you a spongy bicycle. The booster is there to help you brake without much force required. Without the booster you ‘d actually have to stand on the brake pedal. But it has nothing to do with a spongy bicycle.

To test the booster, turn off the cable car at night and pump the brake pedal until it gets very firm. Come out the following dawn and see if it is still firm like it was when you pumped it up the night before .

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#2024148

09:26 AM

Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: Brake Bleeding Mystery or Just Ignorant Mechanic?
Re: BlaineB]

SgtTaz
Offline

Registered: 01/24/08

Posts: 3131

Loc: Chicago, IL

Over the HillRegistered : 01/24/08Posts : 3131Loc : Chicago, IL
If the booster is malfunctioning you will sometimes get a spongy feel to the brakes. look at what you said right after saying it has nothing to do with it. “ pump pedal cashbox it gets firm ” If it ‘s not returning the pressure you ‘ll get that feel and depression of the bicycle far than normal. As you said the booster helps you brake without requiring a lot of violence so if it ‘s not working the bicycle will have to travel further to apply the force. i : Spongy Feel .

2006 CVPI Smokestone Metallic/ 2005 CVPI D.O.A (6/04/10)/ 2000 CVPI Blown engine (R.I.P)(SOLD)
_________________________2006 CVPI Smokestone Metallic/ 2005 CVPI D.O.A ( 6/04/10 ) / 2000 CVPI Blown engine ( R.I.P ) ( SOLD )

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