120 tpi Vs. 27 tpi Larry characteristics

120 tpi Vs. 27 tpi Larry characteristics

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You're reading: 120 tpi Vs. 27 tpi Larry characteristics

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discussion starter · #1 · nov 22, 2010

maybe this has already been discussed, and sorry if so, but does the quality characteristics justify the $60 price gap between the two versions?

i just want to be satisfied with the tire and not have a boat anchor but if it’s marginal then i’d rather save that money.

thanks for any input!

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i’ve felt both. the difference is in the suppleness of the casing. there are more threads in one inch, thus they are smaller threads. they just move easier. the tire will conform and deflect at low pressures much better. higher thread counts makes sense in these low pressure tires. they’ll be easier to push at those lower pressures because the tire changes its shape easier. if your main concern is cost, well, whatever. maybe just get the 120 for the rear and the 27 for the front. if you plan on doing any endurance riding, go with the higher tpi. i bought two 27tpi ones to stud. i usually don’t ride for more than a few hours at a time anyways.

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i’m sure soon enough we’ll hear from people about the difference when riding in cold temps. i know that below 0 and colder even the high tpi tires roll slow. in theory, the low tpi tires should roll even slower, but i wonder if there will be a noticeable difference between the two tires.

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1,696 posts

bump

any real difference in riding in snow

thanks sj

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how do you tell them apart? tpi isn’t listed on the sidewall.

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400 posts

discussion starter · #6 · feb 3, 2011

i went with the 120 version cause i didn’t want to be unhappy with a $70 tire and not have any recourse.

it works. i guess. you guys really s larry’s d around here and i don’t feel it lives up to the hype. the front end still washes out like no other but it does handle better on dry pavement.

surly r&d: look at a 2wd tractor front tire, square with deep, uninterrupted ribs.

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2,576 posts

there’s another thread in the forum about belts/threads ripping, maybe the 27tpi is tougher?

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2,374 posts

here’s an interesting article about tires – rolling resistance and damage resistance vs thread count are mentioned:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/tech-feature-the-work-of-wheel-energy

“higher thread counts aren’t always better:

according to wheel energy, higher thread count casings are generally lighter and suppler than tyres with lower thread counts since they absorb less rubber during the vulcanisation process (non-vulcanised tyres such as most high-end tubulars exhibit their own characteristics).

however, they also suffer from decreased puncture resistance since the individual cords are thinner and easier to cut. interestingly, wheel energy claims medium-count casings (around 60tpi) may offer the best all-around performance for everyday use. as compared to 120tpi casings, they can actually roll faster and are much more resistant to cuts while often carrying just a slight weight penalty.

if cut resistance is highest of your list of priorities, 30tpi tyres are apparently the way to go but you can also expect them to be heavy and slow rolling.”

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went with the 27s

changed my mind from the 120s so i could go with the rolling darryl rim instead of the marge dh

going half fat on my stumpjumper ss to finish off the winter

still pondering on frames

i’m thinking i will pull the trigger this winter if i do not build one myself

sometimes winter is just too short

sj

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i have searched every thread, and still have found no answer to the question…

how do you tell them apart by looking at them? tpi isn’t listed on the sidewall.

there is a “part number” on my tire ia-2405-01, but i don’t know if that’s a 120 or a 27.

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kratekraig – you mean you have a pair in your hands currently, and you’re trying to id them?

feel the inside of the casing. if it isn’t baby butt smooth, it’s probably the 27 version. also with the 27 version, you should be able to look at the inside and notice a pattern easily.

take a pic maybe? i have both versions, we could compare images.

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you have both?

drew diller said:

kratekraig – you mean you have a pair in your hands currently, and you’re trying to id them?

feel the inside of the casing. if it isn’t baby butt smooth, it’s probably the 27 version. also with the 27 version, you should be able to look at the inside and notice a pattern easily.

take a pic maybe? i have both versions, we could compare images.

any noticeable difference in the ride, drew? i’m needing a new larry soon and wondering whether to pay the uphcarge for the 120s.

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well… i put studs in them. i can only give a fair which-casing-is-which opinion. sorry!

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thanks drew

probably over thinking it anyway… i like the suppleness of the 120s, but not price. the extra weight of the cheaper tires doesn’t concern me much, but i’d like to get some sense of what i’d be giving up in terms of ride quality with the 27s.

Read more: Tyres: Tubeless vs Clincher | Bespoke Cycling

on another tire-related note: anyone else notice the 120 larry sidewalls holding up better than the sidewalls on the 120 endos? larry looks new while the endo is abraded to the threads in a few spots, has cracks, and some spots with rubber separation. of course the endo is on the back where it tends deform more at low pressure and takes more abuse when float is lost (at least under my fat a_ _).

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222 posts

drew diller said:

kratekraig – you mean you have a pair in your hands currently, and you’re trying to id them?

i was just wondering what tire came on my stock mukluk complete.

i thought it was strange that there are no markings to distinguish the two different tires.

if you’re paying extra for the 120 tpi tire, how do you know you’re actually getting one?

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847 posts

kratekraig said:

i was just wondering what tire came on my stock mukluk complete. i thought it was strange that there’s no markings to distinguish the two different tires.

i’ve been wondering the same thing. so i just went out with a ruler and counted, where i can see the contour of threads through the exterior sidewall. looks like 27 to me, unless there’s more to it than what’s visible. (i’m not going to take the tire off, but i do recall that it wasn’t “buttery smooth,” either.)

if this is the case, it frankly pisses me off quite a bit. i don’t believe the budget version of the tire had even been announced by the time the mukluk was announced, and when i threw down my money for my pre-order. i expected to be getting the normal / high-thread count larrys. nothing in the salsa literature specified otherwise.

i never would have opted for the heavier one. i’m not a huge weight weenie, but i’ve invested a lot of effort this winter doing what i can to get the “revolving weight” reduced – drilling rims, experimenting with lighter tubes,…. (come to think of it, the salsa website specifed the wheels as having double-butted spokes, which would have reduced some wheel weight too, but they were big pencil-gauge, straight suckers when i got it. so the literature/specifications don’t count for much anyway.)

something else makes sense in retrospect now, too: when i picked up my bike, the guys at the shop (who are very accomplished snow bikers) tried to show me how to adjust tire pressure properly “by sight” – getting just the right amount of wrinkle in the sidewall when sitting on the bike. even they didn’t know we were looking at a new, stiffer version of the tire though. to get the kind of deformation that they were used to with about 7 or 8 psi, i had to go down to about 3 psi. eventually i figured out that i needed more air and a gauge to get it right. but can’t help wonder what kind of floatation or performance i’m giving up, or if i did any damage before i figured it out.

now i’m wondering if those funny looking wrinkles in the sidewall, that seemed to stay around even after i un-weighted the tire, are a precursor to early sidewall separation. hmmmm…:madmax:

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kratekraig said:

i have searched every thread, and still have found no answer to the question…

how do you tell them apart by looking at them? tpi isn’t listed on the sidewall.

there is a “part number” on my tire ia-2405-01, but i don’t know if that’s a 120 or a 27.

i emailed surly a while back inquiring about the same thing but got no response from them .

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i asked surly the question and got this back:

hi dave,

usually, the best way to tell the difference between the two casings is

weight. the 120tpi tires weigh less, they are also more supple, but

that can be a bit more difficult to notice in hand.

best,

johnny

maybe just writing it on the side is too hard???

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anyone ridden both versions?

ok… i’m giving this thread a bump. someone out there has to have tried the 27tpi tires after spending some time on the 120s. how ’bout a review? i would love to save some $$$ on a new, cheaper larry, but i want some idea what i’d be giving up.

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Category: Bike Tires